Llama Commerce: How to Succeed on Amazon

Brett: Well hello, and welcome to another addition of the Llama Commerce show. I’m your host, Brett Curry. Lead Strategist here at Classy Llama, and so excited about the show today. We’ve got a recurring guest, the most popular guest on this show, one of my favorite guests of all time, and his partner in crime joining us today. So, we have the world famous Ezra Firestone on the podcast today.

Ezra: Woooooo!

Brett: Yes, how’s it going Ezra?

Ezra: I’m doing great, and I will just tell the listeners, that Brett claims to be a fan of me on this show. Claims we’re buddies, comes to my city and doesn’t call. Doesn’t write. Doesn’t reach out. I look on his Facebook—he’s got these adorable kids, they’ve got these chubby cheeks—I say oh, here’s Brett’s chubby cheeked daughter… At the empire state building? At the Statue of Liberty? Wait a minute. Wait a minute here. In New York, didn’t call me. I’m heart broken.

Brett: Now, I want to set the record straight. Now I appreciate the compliments on the kids. I appreciate that. But Mike, your business partner, Mike Pereira. Good friend of mine as well, rock store in the marketing community, eCommerce community. Welcome to the show, Mike.

Mike: Hey man, I’m glad to be here.

Brett: I think you can set the message straight for me.

Mike: I did see an email saying that Brett was gonna be in New York, if we wanted to get together. So I’m gonna have to back up Brett.

<strongEzra: Who checks email anymore?

Brett: I should have, so ok…

Ezra: With text messages and everything.

Brett: I should have text messaged you, should have Skyped.

Mike: Snapchatted you.

Brett: Should have Snapchatted you.

Ezra: Speaking of which, your business partner Snapchats me all the time.

Brett: I believe that.

Ezra: He’s really into it. He sends little blurbs of his life. He’s the only person I talk to on Snapchat.

Brett: He’s a Snapchatter.

Ezra: He really is.

Brett: So, really excited to have you on the show today. It’s going to be really fun. We’re going to talk about, something that you guys are world class at. And I don’t say that lightly. You guys know this better than anybody that I know, and you know it better than most people on the planet, and that’s how to succeed on Amazon. You guys are doing some crazy awesome stuff. So, as always, our goal on the Llama Commerce show is to demystify eCommerce into actionable bites. Amazon is growing, obviously, everybody knows about Amazon. Most people are at least sold on the idea of exploring Amazon and how you can potentially use it.

Now, I want to talk from your perspective, and we’ll try to hopefully dive in fairly deep over the next twenty something minutes on how someone should look at Amazon, how someone could succeed with Amazon, and we’ll kind of hit it from two different angles. I know you guys help a lot of people who want to get started, who want to be an entrepreneur, they’ve got nothing right now so they go out and find products and sell on Amazon. We work with established eCommerce companies, those that have their own site, their own brand, they’re rocking along. But they should be on Amazon too, in most cases.

So, let’s just start with why Amazon. So i’ll let you guys kind of both take a stab at this. So, let’s start first with an established eCommerce company, so someone who has a site, has a brand, why should they consider Amazon?

Ezra: I’ll jump in here for this one. It’s so interesting, I was having a conversation with a fortune 100 retailer. They do $4.5 billion dollars a year in their market, they have 12% in their market in North America. And they are not on Amazon. And, I was saying look guys, we’ve got 100 million shoppers per month on Amazon, one third of America recurs each month on Amazon, and you’re not putting your product on there. It’s just a sales channel. The sales channel is too large for any retailer to ignore at this point. We could talk about the ups and downs of the Amazon channel, and believe me, there are pros, serious pros, and serious cons that we will get into of retailing on this channel, but the sheer amount of customers who have their credit cards on file ready to shop and make a purchasing decision, that are there. It’s just too much to ignore, is what I think about it.

I don’t know, did we lose Mike here?

Brett: Potentially. I don’t see Mike.

Ezra: Mike is like, I’m outta here.

Brett: He’s like, mic drop. That’s it, Ezra just covered it all. But there’s never been another platform like Amazon. Nothing like this has ever existed in the past, it is a monster. Conversion rates are off the charts, right?

Ezra: In our lifetime, we may never see a retail channel take the world by storm the way that Amazon has. The only thing I believe that has a chance is the, I don’t think conglomerate is the right word here, but, the combined integrated social commerce channel, which is now how you can… I mean, Shopify already has connections with Twitter, Facebook and Pinterest, where you can buy in app, on the social network. The product isn’t rolled out yet, it will be a couple years before this is really rolled out, and it’s sort of seamless. But, that shopping channel of in app social purchases without leaving the social application, being able to make a purchase one click, has a potential to be as large of a channel as Amazon, but it may not me.

So Mike, what we were just talking about it, why Amazon. If you want to jump in on that.

Brett: I think you said it. Again, he’s speechless. You know, the thing about Amazon is, people are there, they’re in buying mode, they’re ready to buy it’s the whole reason they’re there. I agree the social channel could be huge. Especially Pinterest, potentially other platforms, Instagram maybe.

Ezra: And let’s look at the fact that, these integrated social commerce, what I’m calling it. I don’t believe there’s a word for it yet. They’re copying—so is Apple pay, not copying, but—doing what Amazon has done which is getting users to put their credit cards on file so that they can make one click purchases from within the app itself.

And when you look at what Facebook did with Messenger, they made the Messenger a peer to peer payment system so that you could send money to your friends, like Venmo, Paypall, so that people will put their credit cards on file, so that, you know?

Brett: Yep. All to open up these purchasing opportunities down the road. Yeah, and another interesting thing, and you know I’m into Google Shopping. I spend a lot of time speaking on that and writing on that. And I think that has a lot of potential as well, and I think that the purchase on Google could be interest but it’s so early, who knows? But, I still don’t think that will ever reach the level of Amazon in terms of a pure market place.

Ezra: Sure, but they’re second. They’re plenty big. They shouldn’t be ignored either. You know what I’m interested in, and I know that we’ll get back to Amazon… I am quite interested in the Pinterest comparison shopping engine product, when it’s fully rolled out. Right now, you kind of use it with some products, but they haven’t rolled the product out. They just announced it, said we’re going to do this, we’re going to become a comparison shopping engine. So I’m quite interested to see what percentage of the market share they pick up in the PLA product listing when we have a sense of what it will be when they’re product is fully rolled out.

Brett: Yeah. The mindset of someone on Pinterest is a little different of someone on Facebook, as an example. On Pinterest, people want to do something, they want to research something. I think they’re much more inclined to purchase when they’re on Pinterest. So I think this is going to be fascinating.

Ezra: And if Pinterest can ever break into the male market, and get men on there. That will be good too. So, I think an established retailer… Now, look, we also have to confront Amazon’s stated mission of finding the best products and then bringing them to market. Now, essentially what Amazon does is they say Oh this a great category, let’s make our own, you know?

Brett: Right.

Ezra: And they’ll try to buy from you, if you’re the number one retailer. Or, they’ll try to buy from whoever is supplying you. And they know who is supplying you, you know what I mean. Because you have to tell them that when you sell your product on Amazon. They get that information from you, who is you supplier.

Brett: They can potentially just go straight to the source.

Ezra: And they do that. It’s a very real thing that happens, it happens to a lot of folks. It doesn’t mean you go out of business, it just means you’re competing with the number one retailer in the world in your category, and they’re going to eat up some of the market.

Brett: Yep. And it means that channel shifts and maybe those products things shift, but still valid. I love the fact that you bring that up, and we’ll probably weave that in as we go, but how would you suggest someone get started. So, if I own a retail store, I’m selling my own products I have my own brand. What should be my first steps on Amazon in terms of what I consider, how should I approach this whole product line, just a few products. How should someone get started.

Ezra: You know, I’m just going to angle my camera down here. I’m in my guest bedroom. My wife has taken over what was my office, which is now her office. I am very happy about it. We’re sort of in flux in getting me an office space, so the lighting in here is not the greatest.

Brett: Happy wife happy life, bro.

Ezra: Here’s the story on that. Let’s get a little gossip going down on this show, because why not. So, Carrie is my wife. You know that, the listeners might not.

Brett: Yeah, she’s awesome.

Ezra: So, we lived in like 500 square feet in Union Square Manhattan for like 8 years. And then we moved to Brooklyn and had a little bit bigger of an apartment. And then we rented the apartment downstairs. Now, we’re upstate and we have a big 10 acre thing. But everywhere we’ve gone, she’s always wanted a room for her.

Brett: Yeah, a room of one’s own.

Ezra: So we finally get this big house, but still, somehow or another, she still doesn’t have a room that is just hers. And I have this office, because I need an office, right? But then, I find that I’m like following her around with my laptop, working in whatever room she’s in, never closing the door. I don’t want to be closed off in an office. I want to be able to work anywhere. So anyway, we gave her the office and now I’m sort of in the guest bedroom for a while, which I quite like.

Brett: Not bed. It feels good to stretch out a little bit there. I love the city, but you gotta stretch out.

Ezra: So what was the question? Because it was a good one.

Brett: So you have your own store, you have a product line. How should you get started on Amazon.

Ezra:First, you should list your products, to start, right? Get them up there. Number one. A lot of people don’t. Hey is that you Mike, can you hear us?

Brett: Hey, Mikey!

Mike: I’m back, but you guys are all broken up.

Ezra: Do we sound robotic?

Mike: Yeah, you’re all robotic. I tried rebooting.

Ezra: So here’s question, you can hear us well enough, right?

Mike: What’s that?

Ezra: Alright, if you can’t hear us Mike, then we’re just going to keep rolling.

Mike: Yeah, just roll on without me. I can’t hear you.

Ezra: Ok man, it’s been good to see you.

Brett: On the video, you’ll see Mike, you’ll see the sincerity, and the smile and that great Philly accent I love so much.

Ezra: So, the key to Amazon right, is basically, the way that people are making it on Amazon, it’s Google 2.0. Everyone is hustling the algorithm. It’s all search engine result manipulation. Amazon result manipulation. Where you rank for organic search terms is kind of the way that 95% of people are making their living on Amazon.

And there’s a whole bunch of factors that go into ranking on Amazon, and I won’t get into that, but what I will tell you is that what you definitely want to be doing is running Amazon sponsored ads. Number one. Get you listings up there, have high quality pictures and well written bullets and product descriptions, and story based copy not just features and benefits. Traditional eCommerce stuff, right, listed as if it was a listing on your store. Get yourself some reviews from friends and family. You can’t start running Amazon sponsored ads without 10 or 15 or 20 reviews on a product. Reviews are a big—

Brett: Ezra just a clarification, Amazon won’t let you run ads without reviews?

Ezra: You can, they just won’t convert.

Brett: Got it. 15 or 20 reviews is what you want before your turn on the ads.

Ezra: We like to have 50 or 100. And, sort of the number of reviews you have is a good solid thing in the ranking algorithm. But they also reward things like outside traffic. So for example, one of our main sales funnels is to drive traffic to a presell page, and engagement page. And you know all about this, we’ve talked about this on past episodes of a Llama Commerce show. And we’ll send traffic to a presell engagement page that rolls into a pitch for an Amazon product, where we’ll say hey, get this product for 30% or 40% off on Amazon. And we’re still making money, but we’re sending outside sales into Amazon, and that’s the real secret that most people don’t understand. If you can figure out how to send outside sales, and I’m not talking about at a $1 a pop or you’re giving people a coupon for a dollar, but legitimate outside purchases from Google, Facebook, Pinterest, Instagram, from anywhere—from endorsements from emails—into your Amazon account, that is the best juice you can give that Amazon listing. Because at the end of the day, where you rank for the keywords you want to sell for is a huge factor in how well you’re going to do on Amazon. We do, I don’t know, 100 thousand a month on this one brand, and it’s largely driven by organic rankings because we do a lot to market our listings, you know. So, again, it comes down to marketing.

Brett: Yeah, I love the fact that there’s kind of an SEO play here.

Ezra: It’s 100% Google 2.0. dude. Really, I predict the same thing we saw with Google where they come in and they start smacking people. Amazon is going to start smacking people. It’s already started and here’s why: Most people who are selling on Amazon right now have the same cat scratcher as the twenty other bums who are selling cat scratchers from the same manufacturer in China. There’s no uniqueness to the product, there’s no value add—we’re not in 2000 anymore. You can’t slap up a crappy product that everyone else has and expect to make money on that, that’s not the name of the game. And that’s what’s being taught, it’s hey, go find yourself a product that everyone has, through your own label on it, throw it on Amazon. Fine. You might make some sales, but if you want to build a brand, if you want to have customers who come back and buy from you again, you have to have some level of uniqueness to your product, or you’re hosed.

Brett: Yeah, I love that. So, this is a question that I have that I was going to ask later, but I think it fits right now, and thats, how do you use Amazon to build a business? We work with merchants who in this for the long haul, their building a brand, their building a business, they’re trying to take over in their market place, so to speak. How do you use Amazon to build a brand rather than just to make some sales, because I think a lot of people on Amazon are just making sales, they’re just bringing in a little bit of money, they’re not building a business.

Ezra: It’s a good question, because by definition, the customers you get on Amazon are Amazon’s customers. You agree to that terms of service. The legit way to do it is to include a package insert in your product that goes out, and have your website on the label that sends people back to your own website. The second legit way to do it, is to, before you send people to Amazon, capture them as a lead. Like, I’m talking about on the presell page, have a 20% percent off where you opt them in before they go to Amazon. So, leveraging Amazon is going to convert way better than your eCommerce website. So leverage that for customer generation. Use that to generate customers. Use Amazon as the sales hook, with a small discount, generate a lead—so, put them through an opt in form before you send them to Amazon—have Amazon be the first place they buy from you, and then market to those leads on your eCommerce store. That’s how we do it. We send most of our front end leads through to an Amazon listing, because it converts a lot better, and then we have a group of customers—at the end of the day, it’s the person who has a group engaged in a conversation that is going to do the best—if you’re just making sales on Amazon, it’s just cashflow. You have no brand, you have no asset, you don’t own the customers, you can’t market to them. You’ll get 5% of them off of your package insert—

Brett: Is that right, it’s about 5%?

Ezra: Yeah, 5-10%. You’ll get 10% if you’re doing really well. Some people will go ahead and post card mail their Amazon customers, because you get the Amazon customer’s address. Technically against the rules. Some people go ahead and call their Amazon customers, because you get their number.

Brett: Technically against the rules as well?

Ezra: Do you want some merchant calling you? No. Think about that, think about when was the last time you bought something on Amazon…

Brett: What if it’s a service call?

Ezra: Right, they frame it like, hey we want to make sure you’re doing well with your purchase, you know. Can we get a review out of you, or can you buy this other things from us or here’s a discount. I am, as a purchaser of things on Amazon—I just bought a new pair of Bose headphones, a Nikon 70D for my third camera angle, I buy stuff from Amazon all the time—I don’t want some retailer calling me up saying hey you bought something on Amazon. That’s the last thing I want. You have to treat your customers the way you’d want to be treated.

Brett: Totally. And I remember, I bought a case for my iPhone 6 when I bought it, and it had a great inset in the package—I bought it from Amazon—and it had a great insert in it that was saying hey would you please review it. And I don’t remember all the copy but it was warm, and fun and inviting. And I thought yeah, I’ll respond to that. That’s not bad. But they didn’t harass me on the phone or anything like that.

Ezra: Yeah, they didn’t call you up. And here’s what some other people will do. They try to match those phone addresses to email addresses and then spam people. Also, against the rules. So, look at the end of the day, there’s not a whole lot that… when you make a lot of sales on Amazon, people come and naturally search for your brand. We get several thousands of dollars of sales from people who know us on Amazon coming and buying from our website, so that does happen naturally. But the way to really amplify that is package insert and leveraging Amazon as your front end—

Brett: I love that. That’s so smart, and I guarantee most people are missing that. I think that our clients here at Classy Llama and elsewhere, that we, larger merchants and midsize merchants, and probably 60% are on Amazon right now… I know, just from having conversations with them, they feel like they are under leveraged on Amazon, we’re not using it to its full potential. And I think that that strategy that you just talked about, where you use it as the front end. You send someone to a presell page, educating them on the product, getting them to opt in, and then sending them to Amazon to convert.

Ezra: And on the presell page, it’s engagement, transition into pitch for solution that relates to the article, you know… 5 make up tips for baby boomer women, and by the way, there’s this amazing brand of makeup specific to you, get 30% off on Amazon by clicking this button. Click. Pops up on opt in box, enter your email address to get your coupon for 30% off, opts in, puts them on a prepurchase auto responder sequence, gives them that 30% off coupon, sends them to Amazon. Before it sends them to Amazon, redirects them and drops a cookie on them so you can retarget them differently than those who landed on the presell page. There ya go.

Brett: Yeah, it’s beautiful. The marketer in me is rejoicing right now. I’m having a hard time containing my excitement about that funnel. It’s awesome. Do you recommend always doing fulfilled by Amazon, where you ship your products to Amazon and they fulfill it. What are your thoughts on that, is that always a must?

Ezra: You know, you get prime that way. A lot of people only buy products that are prime. Amazon ranks prime products a little higher. There are benefits to doing it that way.

Brett: So, usually you’re going to recommend doing that if possible for merchants.

Ezra: We do it for our Amazon orders. But for orders that come through our platform, we fulfill with a 3rd party.

Brett: Gotcha. So, what are some mistakes you see? I know we’ve hit on some of them, but—

Ezra: All of these people using these review clubs. So, you remember all of these blog networks?

Brett: Yeah.

Ezra: So, review clubs are the blog networks of Amazon. It’s a bunch of people who are reviewing everyone’s products, leaving this crazy footprint, leaving crappy reviews. And Amazon is going to come through and clean all this up at some point, it’s going to be all the review clubs are going to get shut down. I predict this at some point. It’s already sort of started. Some of these guys have gotten shut down. So don’t use review clubs. Go out and get your own reviews for your products. It’s not that difficult.

Brett: And consumers can sniff that out. You read a phony review, and you think this is someone’s mom, or someone’s friend.

Ezra: Amazon’s whole system is built on their social proof element of their reviews. And you have all these merchants gaming that. And Amazon is going to get wise to this, and people are going to stop trusting the reviews because they know they’re being gamed by all these people who have crappy products that are ranking number one. And this going to clear out at some point, because Amazon can’t afford to have people with crappy products gaming their system and then ranking. And then having customers be upset. Have a good product is the first step, right?

Brett: So review clubs, that’s a no no. That’s going away. What are some other mistakes you see people making on Amazon?

Ezra: There is the over reliance on Amazon’s free traffic. Just being like, well I’m making $25,000 a month on Amazon’s free traffic, and doing no other marketing for your business. Not doing any paid, not doing any lead gen, not doing anything outside of Amazon, just living off the fat of the land. Remember when Penguin it, in 2007 or 2008, when that first hit, and we had all these eCommerce merchants living off the fat of the Google search engine listings for 5 years, making millions of bucks a year. Boom. Gone over night, because they had one single failure point in their business which was their free organic search engine optimization ranking. So, I see a lot of people doing that, I see a lot people with crappy photos and not very high quality descriptions. What else? I’d say those are the top ones.

Brett: Those are the big ones, yeah. That totally makes sense. I think if you just look at success on Amazon, success online as an eCommerce merchant, it just goes back to are you being lazy, or are you doing the little things that make a difference? And are you doing the things that make people look at your listing and say, I want that. I trust that. The trust factor is already there because it’s on Amazon, but I trust that product and that listing so I’m going to buy. I think that this naturally leads into the next question, but what separates the good from the great on Amazon. I know you coach a lot people on how to sell on Amazon. You guys are doing a tremendous amount of Amazon business with a few of your brands. What are some of the things that really separate the good from the great?

Ezra: We can talk about what separates the good from the great in any endeavor. Number 1, you’ve got more than one trick. You can make it really far on one trick. BJ Penn was the first American to win the Brazilian Jiu Jistu world championship at black belt level at only like 4 years of training, with basically one trick. So I’m not saying that one trick can’t take you to the top, but one trick isn’t going to keep you at the top, at least not for long. So be doing more. Be doing Amazon sponsored ads. Be doing other types of paid traffic to your Amazon listing. Be doing optimization of your listing. Have more than one product. You have to have more than one product. That’s really the secret to success on Amazon, is multiple products. You have to have 5, 10, 15 products in your line.

Brett: Why is that?

Ezra: Number one, people will buy from your brand more often. People will come in and buy one and they’ll see you have others. Amazon will cross sell your stuff for you. They’ll be like, you bought this now try this other thing in this line. It’s easy to get a product to do 5, 10, 20 sales a day. You can have 15 or 20 products, and all the sudden you have a business. Instead of just one home run that does 400 sales a day. Instead, you have multiple products doing a few sales a day. That’s how you diversify and get those high numbers on Amazon. I did a blog post on SmartMarketer.com, called The Cross Sell is Queen. I highly recommend you watch it, listener, because it talks specifically about this topic, and why in eCommerce, the name of the game is cross selling. It’s not the front end sale, it’s the cross sell on the back end that is really the secret to our business model. And you have to understand that. On Amazon, that’s really the key to success.

Brett: Love it, love it. We’re almost out of time, but one of the things I want to talk about just briefly. Any insight on the Amazon sponsored ads? I’m a huge fan of paid traffic. We use it all the time and I see the benefits. Any dos or donts?

Ezra: Spend as much money as you can. Go super wide and find those keywords that are actually profitable and then juice those up. Run everything that’s at break even as hard as you can.

Brett: Because again, you’ll make money on the cross sell.

Ezra: On the cross sell, on customer acquisition. The frequency of purchase on our listing is a factor in your ranking, so if you can just drive sales—

Brett: Your products will go up in ranking and you’ll sell more in the long run.

Ezra: Frankly, we run it at a loss every month because of the juice it gives us on the organic side. We run for keywords that we know don’t make us money but they give us sales, and that helps. I’d say just go as hard as you can on it. I can’t get into all of it, it’s a whole world. But it’s not that difficult. The advertising world is fairly rudimentary. It’s like, pick all the keywords, turn them on, see which ones do well.

Brett: It’s a lot easier than say Google Adwords, or Google Shopping or something like that.

Ezra: It’s way simpler than that. The interface is like, podunk. They’ve only been running for, it’s like what Google was ten years ago.

Brett: Pick your keywords, turn it on, and then watch. So I want to hit on a couple actual bites, and then I want to talk about how people can get in touch with you and hang out with you. Because you are a fountain of knowledge and wisdom.

Ezra: Hey are seeing my lower third? Does it say Ezra Firestone, SmartMarketer.com.

Brett: No, I don’t see your lower third.

Ezra: I’m struggling with Google Hangouts here.

Brett: See if you can get that going. It’s Ezra Firestone, SmartMarketer.com. Google Ezra Firestone, you’ll find him everywhere. But, a couple of actual bites, multiple products. So, if you’re an existing merchant, don’t just pick your top seller. Sounds like 10, 15, 25 would be a good place to start. And, the cross sell is important. It sounds like capturing someone’s information if you can, create these presell funnels and capture their info before they get to Amazon. Do the package inserts after they’ve purchased from Amazon, that also makes sense. Don’t do anything spammy. Focus your time on good pictures, good product descriptions and titles. And also, try to get some volume and some velocity by turning on some ads and getting people to purchase quickly. It sounds like outside traffic is also huge. Any other actionable bites? Anything else you would tell someone, hey go check this out, go do this thing, watch this video, to kind of help them get started or help them take it to the next level?

Ezra: I’ve done some trainings on Amazon on my blog, so check those out. It’s actually not particularly complicated. There’s a lot of courses out there: The Amazing Selling Machine is a very popular and fantastic course for new Amazon merchants. If you’re getting started, I would say that’s the best course on the market. And, I think you know, we’ve kind of covered it. If there’s specific questions, listeners, about Amazon, you want to post them to the Llama Commerce show then I can come back and answer them, or if you want to post them to my blog. But I think we’ve covered it.

Brett: Yeah, awesome. Well, check Ezra out at SmartMarketer.com. I’ll put some links in the show notes that will link to some of your blogs and trainings on Amazon.

Ezra: Come look at my stuff! I’ve got good stuff going on over here.

Brett: You are a content marketer at heart. I love your tag line, serve the world unselfishly and profit.

Ezra: I’m a machine.

Brett: You’re a machine.

Ezra: I’m like the little engine that could, I just keep moving a long.

Brett: It’s good stuff. Hey, are you going to be at Traffic and Conversion this year?

Ezra: I will be there. My speaking position is unseen. I’m in talks with digital marketer, we’re talking about some stuff. We’re figuring all that out, but I love those guys and I love that conference. I’m an alumni, I spoke 2013, 14, 15, maybe even 2012.

Brett: I met you in San Francisco when you spoke at that—

Ezra: Was that 2012?

Brett: I think so.

Ezra: I’m a multi year alumni at that event, so I’d like to keep the streak going. But it’s going to be fun to be there, so I look forward to that. So, thanks for having me on the show. I love coming on the show.

Brett: No problem. What about your Twitter handle, other places people can reach you?

Ezra: You can find me @ezrafirestone on Twitter, on Linkedin, Instagram, Facebook.com/MeetEzra, SmartMarketer.com is really where you can get me. I do a lot of stuff there that is sort of related to this. If you’ve got a podcast with a lot of listeners, I’ll come talk to them. I like doing this stuff.

Brett: Awesome. Alright man, it was awesome having you. I’m thoroughly bummed that Mike could not join us. But it was nice just having his face pop up on the show. You can give him a hard time.

Ezra: I’m going to give him a hard time.

Brett: He’s running an online marketing company, can’t get a good solid connection. But Ezra, that was great as always brother, we’re going to have you back. So please reach out to Ezra—

Ezra: Do I get the thing, don’t I get some kind of something?

Brett: You know what, for listeners that are huge Kurt Theobald fans, which, I don’t know if he has any. We had lunch yesterday, he said you know what, I’m getting the itch, I may come back on the Llama Commerce show from time to time. He’s going to a guest every now and then, so this kind of the new look on the Llama Commerce show. We usually do not do the one armed table tennis trophy. I’m bring it back for you, Ezra, because you’re a regular. So, without question, you get this and unfortunately Mike gets no share in this.

Ezra: I mean that guy, sort of showing up, pretending he’s going to do the show with us.

Brett: Being like, I don’t know if it’s my end or yours.

Ezra: It’s kind of sad too, because he’s a really really really smart guy. But we’ll get him some other time.

Brett: Alright Ezra, thanks again. For all of you, please let us know what you think, what you’d like to hear more of, less of. And always, stay classy.

Ezra: Stay classy.