How did an 8-figure business optimize ad performance after the iOS 14 update? Find out in this conversation between the Marketing Manager of Smart Marketer, Dani, and the CMO of BOOM!, Boris. After some of the worst ad results he’d seen in years, Boris discovered a few small changes that had a big impact on ROI. You’ll hear how BOOM!’s Amazon launch impacted their ad results, what Boris learned from a determined member of Ezra’s mastermind, why you should run an evergreen discount, and so much more!
- The importance of the ad spend-to-revenue ratio
- What Boris learned from a determined member of Ezra’s mastermind
- When you should consider running an evergreen discount campaign
- How Boris interprets BOOM!’s recent Facebook ad campaign results
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Links to Join:
0:26 This episode comes from a Team Traffic Watch Me Work training with our Marketing Manager (Dani) and the CMO of BOOM! (Boris).
1:56 Facebook’s new algorithm and BOOM!’s Amazon launch.
4:53 Trusting what we know to be reliable.
5:52 One more thing to consider when you’re doing well…
6:40 What a Blue Ribbon member discovered about the Facebook algorithm.
9:41 Were new audiences targeted during the campaign recreation?
11:18 The joys of a new cold acquisition product.
14:16 “You don’t need a big difference to make a big difference.”
17:32 What would Boris do if an ad was showing mixed results day to day?
18:55 If your ad isn’t designed to make an immediate sale, it should be bringing THIS type of value to your business…
21:42 One Last Thing — BOOM!’s evergreen discount campaign.
27:15 Thanks for listening! To share your feedback or get a question answered on the podcast, follow and message Molly on Instagram at @mollypittmandigital.
Transcript Of Episode 44:
0:00 Boris: What value does an email address bring that doesn’t purchase, right? Because you’re gonna get a lot of those, you’re gonna get a lot of emails who don’t actually purchase. Now, over time, can you nurture those email addresses and make it more profitable?
0:26 Molly: Hello, and welcome to Episode 44 of the “Smart Marketer” podcast. This is your host, Molly Pittman. And I’m really excited for today’s episode. Today’s episode is a recording of a training that happened inside of our Team Traffic membership, which you can learn more at teamtraffic.com, a few weeks ago between our marketing manager, Danny, and the CMO of Boom! by Cindy Joseph, Boris. The discussion is around the fact that we are seeing the worst performance with Facebook ads that we have seen since 2019. And we know that there are a lot of factors at play here, like iOS 14, and the fact that we just launched Boom! on Amazon. But, of course, we’re not going to give up, and Boris and the team are trying everything that they can to get things back on track. Launching new funnels, rebuilding existing campaigns, developing new ad creative copy, hooks. And so we wanted to let you guys behind the scenes today into this call so that you can hear this discussion. And hopefully there are some golden nuggets in here that will help you, your business, and your ad account. If you hop over to the show notes, you can actually watch the video of this training so that you can see what Boris is referencing during this discussion. We hope you enjoy it. Let’s dive right in.
1:56 Interviewer: All right, guys. Well, I’m excited to have Boris on with us, he’s gonna chat about what this one is looking like. I’m excited to talk to you. Because I know last time we chatted, things weren’t looking so good.
Boris: Oh, yeah. I’ll just give everyone like just a brief sort of, you know, history of where we’ve been for the last, say, 30 to 60 days, which is, you know, I mean, it started back in February, we just had…in February, it was like, everything was amazing. We were spending like 35 grand a day, which was the most we’ve ever spent. We spent, I think, just under a million bucks in February, and everything was like living on easy street and my life was amazing. And that…you know, I don’t remember the exact date, but I feel like it was late February, it was like one day it kind of everything changed. There was clearly an update to the sort of algorithm and suddenly, things were not so easy. And, you know, performance just tapered off pretty dramatically and drastically until it got to the point where we reduced our spend by, let’s say, you know, 10 or 15 grand, almost 50% of our spend, and we were still struggling, and we were seeing like CPAs up in the 70s, 80s. And you’re seeing ROAS sort of way down in like the sort of one and some days even like, I think it was at 0.7.
So, it was real tough for us. And like, you know, there were more factors than just the algorithm because right around the time when we started to see our worst performance, we had also launched onto Amazon. So, there’s some, like, figuring out for us. And now that we’re on Amazon, and we know that, hey, look, you know, one thing people do when they see an ad is they go Google it, and then another thing they do is they head over to Amazon, and they see if it’s there. And so we know that that’s happening. And we’re not really sure how to exactly account for that in our reporting. So, we know that like, look, now if we’re doing a top-of-funnel campaign, and it says that, you know, we’re doing $50 CPAs, we do see that our ROAS is way down from what we would expect. So, when we saw a $50 CPA before, we’d expect ROAS say in the 1.5, 1.6 range. Now, if we’re doing $50 CPAs, we’re seeing ROAS in the 1.2 or 1.3 range. I don’t know if that has anything to do with the iOS update, but we have noticed there is a different correlation between the ROAS and our CPA, which is interesting. And then also, how do we account for this Amazon attrition? Like, how do we decide how much performance we’d have sort of showing up in the ads manager that’s now sort of showing up in Amazon and we’re not getting credit for that over at Facebook, because they don’t have any way to track that?
So, that’s our big challenge right now. And of course, one thing we’ve always done as a brand and started as a company is everyone knows that attribution is pretty flaky, and you cannot really know 100%. And yes, it’s good to have metrics because then you can compare your old metrics to your new metrics, and you can kind of see what’s happening in that sense, but they’re not necessarily accurate. And that’s okay because they’re relative, right?
4:53 And so we’ve been just trying to figure out how to better understand the data in our ads manager now that we’re over on Amazon. And one thing that we still rely on, which we’ve always relied on is this idea of spend to revenue ratio, right?
Because like, hey, Facebook is saying we have $70 sales in one ROAS, but we’re getting a three return on all our marketing dollars, which is what we want. We want to spend, like, let’s say, if we made 100 grand, we don’t want to spend any more than 33, right? We don’t want to spend any more than 1/3 of the actual revenue that’s coming in for the day. And we know that’s going to be healthy for our company. And we’re willing to grow as much as we can. We’d spend 100 grand a day if we could make 300 grand a day, and so on and so forth. We’d be willing to scale at any range as long as we could maintain that sort of what we call our little golden ratio of 1 to 3 in spend.
And while our numbers in the Facebook manager have looked pretty shaky for that sort of period, our sort of spend to revenue ratio has been really good.
5:52 Now, another thing to consider is, when you do really well with your traffic, one thing that happens is you sort of build this like snowball, right? And we almost…I actually like to call it a comet, right? Because like, not only do you have this big ball that’s like growing, but you also have this tail that’s following it. And the bigger the ball gets, the longer the tail gets, right? And so, when you have a month like we had in February, we also know that some of the results we’re getting now was that cheap, awesome traffic we had in February, right? And so it’s kind of like taking all that into account and then doing the best you can. And so, you know, we sort of hit our biggest sort of trough maybe two weeks ago, two and a half weeks ago. And we were really struggling, we were in that really high CPA, really low ROAS range. And we reduced by just quite a bit.
6:40 And I talked to a guy in our Blue Ribbon Mastermind who had had some success trying some new things. And his theory was, and I don’t remember this, but he said, “You know, do you remember when there was error in Facebook, and instead of displaying your ad, it displayed all the data behind the ad?” And I didn’t know about this, but apparently, that happened, right?
So, instead of showing your image ad, it would say like, it would have like click-through rate, and engagement rate, and all these metrics that the algorithm was using to decide whether or not to serve up your ad, it just displayed that instead of the ad, right? And so he was like, “Look, if all of our ads have all of this historical data attached to it, and the algorithm just updated and it doesn’t like this old data, because it has to use a new, basically, it has to use a new paradigm now that iOS 14 has rolled out, it can’t use all that old data as a standard metric, it’s going to need to get some new data in order to better understand how to serve our ads in this new world.” He was like, “Well, I think that basically, you shouldn’t have anything in any of your campaigns that is old, because it’s going to be pulling that old data and it’s gonna hurt you.” And the way he came to this conclusion was, he was like, he sells sporting equipment, right? And every spring they run the same post, right? They have this post that has thousands of comments, and tens of thousands of likes, and all this stuff, right? It’s got all this social proof. And so every spring, they just literally grab the post ID and they rerun this post, and every year it crushes.
And this year, he tried to run it and it just totally flopped. And so he felt like something’s up here, something is not sort of business as usual. And so he had this theory, like, okay, well, what if I just update everything, like, new audiences, new campaigns, new… Like, literally, if an image had been run free the late February update, then I’m not running it. If anything, I’m gonna like resize it and put it back up so that it looks like a fresh piece of creative. So, he literally made everything fresh. He started with one campaign just to test the idea. And he saw a really good result. And so he did that to his whole account. And he went from struggle city back into where they’re very comfortable and doing really well and have like a three ROAS for his account. He was very happy.
And so we tried that. And we didn’t get a really good initial bump. And we had some success from that. It wasn’t quite the sort of boon that he got. It wasn’t like everything was fixed. But it did take us from that really uncomfortable spot where the metrics looked terrible to, okay, we can live with this. And so, that’s kind of what I’ve spent the last few weeks doing is just rebuilding a lot of our campaigns and sort of going back to the basics, and that fresh creative, fresh everything and seeing if we can get some new data for the algorithm, get our account back into a good rhythm and see if we can start to scale up again in a spot that we’re comfortable with.
9:41 Interviewer: So, did you all do totally new audiences, like, ones that you have never tried before? How did you go about that?
Boris: Yeah, so I went ahead and, you know, I mean, there’s so many interests that it’s pretty easy to just like knock out a few new interest audiences. And so, I did. Yeah, I did. I uploaded new seeds for all of our look-alikes, and I recreated all of those. You know, there was a guy in Team Traffic, [inaudible 00:10:05] who had the strategy of, you can go into your analytics and you can pull certain little slices of people who are more likely to do things like people who are impulse buyers. And the way you do that is you say, I want only people who viewed one piece of content and then bought. And so there’s impulse buyers, and there’s people who buy more often than everyone else, and there’s people who spend more money than everyone else. And so, we recreated all of our seeds from scratch. And then I created some new interest look-alike, or some new interest audiences, and launched all of those. And we did see some good results from that. However, since then, I’ve run some old audiences, and they’ve also done fine. So, I don’t know…
Interviewer: With new creative? Audiences with new creative?
Boris: Yes. So, since then, we’ve pretty much run nothing but new creative, although, on this last campaign, I did add in, I believe, some creative that were, maybe pre that February update, we’d have to take a look and then we can see how those are doing just because I wanted to see, well, okay, now that we’ve refreshed everything, can all this creative still work or not? And like I said, you know, we’ve done pretty well, and we’re pretty happy with where we’re currently at when it comes to total spend to total revenue ratio.
11:18 And then another really cool thing that’s happened in the last sort of six months or so is, we have a new hold acquisition product. And so, historically, Boom!, hey, if you’re going to become a customer of ours, you’re going to buy our makeup, like, we’re not going to come out and serve you up an ad for skincare and convert you from not knowing us to a customer. The only way we’re going to do that is the Boomstick Trio. Then, last year, we’re like, hey, well, there’s a big sort of, you know, slice of people who are only going to buy something that’s cheaper than $79, right? They’ve never taken the plunge with us before. Our only offer is the Boomstick Trio at 79 bucks, it’s a lot of money to try something out. Even though we have 100% satisfaction guarantee, we’ll give you your money back if you don’t like it. And we try to put that in a lot of places, especially when it comes to cold acquisition to kind of get people over that buying hurdle. But still, it’s not enough sort of peace of mind for a lot of people to give us a shot.
So, we said, “Okay, well, what if we just split out color? Since color is the most popular individual stick, let’s try maybe we can do some color stuff.” And our color-only creatives have worked really, really well for us. And yes, average order value went down from like let’s say the mid-80s to the upper 70s. So, we lost maybe six or eight bucks on our average order value overall. But we felt like, we were now starting to get a customer who we wouldn’t otherwise get. And then once we get a customer, we’re really good at nurturing that customer. And so, it was worth it to us to take that loss on average order value with our ability to sort of scale and get a customer we might not otherwise get.
14:16 It’s just been amazing for us to have another sort of top-of-funnel acquisition product because, historically, we just had the Trio and then we broke out color. And that did help us get some sales, but like mascara has been amazing for our brand. And there’s just only certain products that you’re going to be able to come out and just acquire a bunch of customers with to cold traffic. And mascara, the one of the reasons it’s like…one of the reasons skincare doesn’t work that well is it’s very saturated, the market is just very saturated. And then in addition to that, it’s not really demonstratable. It’s not like, oh, you can see this big difference in a minute when someone uses it. And so it doesn’t kind of have that impact that cosmetics do. And so, when we came out with Bright, it was just like, we knew it was gonna be a big hit amongst our customer base. We didn’t know how good it would be for customer acquisition. And so that’s been really great having Boom Bright back on the store. I’m really interested in scaling that and seeing how much we can bring in with Boom Bright.
Interviewer: That’s awesome. Yeah, I think it’s so important to always be launching new stuff, you know, just so people don’t tire. I think you and I were talking about this the other day over Slack. It’s just like, you just got to keep changing. You know, there’s like highs and lows to media buy, and you just always have to try something different. You know, if something, whatever you’re doing isn’t working. And we do have a question that came in. So, I know that we chatted a little bit about this earlier, kind of like what your guys’ ratio to how much your spend to what your revenue is. But a lot of people are switching over to the one-day click attribution model. So, how are you…I know you guys have optimized for that for a while. But how do you guys determine if that’s successful or not, if you aren’t seeing like that represented in Facebook?
Boris: Well, we’re always just comparing to whatever we did last, right? And so, I was just running seven-day click and one-day view or whatever the options are now. And then I try one-day click and that’s pretty much the only thing I’ve changed, then I’ll say, “Okay. Well, one-day click seemed to really help.” And so, again, it’s not one of these exact sciences, you kind of have to make some moves. It’s nice to change one variable, all right? So, when I change all of our creative, I tried to leave the attribution settings the same, so that it wasn’t like I changed all of our creative, and I changed the attribution setting. And then what was it? Was it the attribution setting? Or was it the creative? Or did they both contribute? And so it is a little bit of a sort of unclear science, but we have been switching over to one-day attribution. And I think that’s helping, as far as I can tell, it’s definitely not hurting.
Interviewer: You guys aren’t seeing your ROAS go down or your CPA go up?
Boris: Well, since I’ve been sort of using the one-day click, I’ve seen actually…it’s a little hard for us, right? Because we don’t have super clean data, we’re doing different things at different times. Like, for instance, when I launched this new campaign on the 4th, that’s the same day that we got mascara back, but it’s also the same time I changed attribution setting. And so, you know, it’s a little hard for me to tell at this point, but we have seven-day click over here, and this thing is working really well too. So I don’t think it’s gonna be like the end all be all, but it might be a little bit of a needle mover. And really the best way to tell is, hopefully, you can make that change kind of on its own, and not really change a whole bunch of other things.
One time, this was like back in like 2018, I found some setting and I changed it, kind of cut off CPAs in half. So, I’m not gonna say that, hey, it’s not gonna do it, you never really know. But I don’t think it’s probably gonna make a huge difference. But it could be enough to make a big…you know, you don’t need big differences to make a big difference, if that makes any sense. You know, the difference for us between a 1.2 ROAS and a 1.5 ROAS is huge. Now, we’re going to scale at 1.5, and we’re going to probably cut down a little bit at 1.2. And so you don’t need huge needle movers to make a big difference. So, I would definitely test it. And we’re definitely getting recommendations to use one-day click from our reps to use the shorter windows. And so, as I rebuild these, a lot of them used to be seven-day. And now all of them are either one-day click review or a one-day click, all the new ones that we built.
Interviewer: For sure. Yeah, that’s what I’ve been told too from our Facebook reps, just that, like with the new iOS 14 changes, you’ll still, like, if your first event is purchase then even if they opt-out, like, you’ll be able to see that within Facebook analytics, like, it’s your data, you know, your browser is going to go down and CPAs could go up, but you’re still gonna be able to see if someone purchases or if you’re optimizing for leads, or whatever that is. So, it’s kind of a trade-off, right?
17:32 Interviewer: Do you guys ever have a situation where in your ad creatives you had a specific creative that does well on day one or day two, and then on another day it will start spending most of the budget without any sales? Will you just let that creative keep running, or shut it off for that day?
Boris: It’s a really good question, you know, and yeah, we see this a lot. And sometimes like I launch a new campaign, I’m like really helpful. I’m like, “Oh, look at this,” it starts in the morning, it’s doing $45 sales. We’re at a 1.6 ROAS. I have fixed everything. I launched this new campaign, it’s got new creative, it’s doing great. And then two days later, it’s in the hole and not doing that well. And we don’t personally find those things to recover. It’s not like we…I don’t think I’ve ever seen one where it’s like, okay, now these creatives are doing well, this campaign is tanking, and then I leave it alone for a day or two. And then it just like magically comes back. It’s like, once it starts, once it gets out of favor in the algorithm’s eyes, it’s really tough to make a comeback. And so, in that situation, I might give it a day or two, like, if it’s just one day of being a little funky, I might leave it. But if it’s like two days, or if it’s a third day I have poor performance, then I shut it off. And I either add new creative to the existing campaign or I launch a new campaign and try to give the algorithm something fresh to go out to the audiences with.
18:55 Interviewer: Okay. Well, and then we have another question for you. So, one of the members said that they want to kind of know your opinion on this. And they said that they saw that digital marketer propose to send an ad to a landing page in which that person registers for a form offering them a discount. And then once they register, then they send them to the product page. What do you think about that?
Boris: Yeah, I mean, so, it’s gonna kill the number of people who make it to your product page, right? Any time you put in, like, you require someone to do something between your ad and your product page, you’re probably going to kill that conversion rate. Now, oftentimes, we’re putting a piece of content in there. And the reason we’re doing that is like, historically, e-commerce was like, hey, what you want to do is get someone to the buy decision as quickly as possible, that’s your big goal, and the fewer steps, the fewer number of touchpoints to get them to that buy box, the cheaper it’s going to be for you to make conversions because you’re not spending so much money getting people there. And that was true for us for a long time.
And then we started this sort of pre-sales strategy where we were putting these pieces of content. And what we noticed was, if we ran a video ad direct to store, it did not do as well if we ran a video ad that went through a pre-sale, and that’s because we kind of need to educate our customer in order for them to buy. And we need them to have more information in order to make that buying decision. And if we just dropped them on a product page, they weren’t inspired enough to take the $79 plunge. And so, it was kind of like, we just tested it, and then it turned out that that was, actually, the longer the journey for us, the more content we got in front of them before they ended up there, the better.
Now, if instead of that piece of content, you say, I want something from him, because that’s what you’re saying, when you say, “Hey, give me this email address.” You’re saying, “I want a value exchange here. I want you to give me something in order for you to get this next step.” And that’s gonna like, you’re going to lop off a large portion of who’s going to actually make it to your product page. That might be okay for you. You might say, “Okay, well, I’m going to test two different creatives, I’m going to test a creative that goes from, you know, ad to email opt-in, that gives them a discount, that then drops them on the page, compared to ad to the page, and then you’re gonna have to calculate what value does an email address bring that doesn’t purchase, right? Because you’re gonna get a lot of those, you’re gonna get a lot of emails who don’t actually purchase. Now, over time, can you nurture those email addresses and make it more profitable? It’s going to be a complicated question, it’s not going to be like something that you’re gonna be able to figure out overnight.
21:42 Interviewer: Okay. Sweet. Do you have any other final thoughts or anything else you want to chat about?
Boris: One last thing we’re doing, and that’s been really effective for us, and you’ll have to think about it for your particular offers and your brand, but it’s this sort of idea of an evergreen discount campaign. And it’s not a huge discount for us, because we just don’t offer big discounts. So, last year, the only way you could get a 10% discount from us is either a sale, or you were on our email list for like 21 days. And we’re like, “Okay, we’re going to try to give you a discount,” or maybe it’s 14 days, or whatever the number of days is, right? So there’s some period of time, we’ve been trying to sell you something, you are interested, let’s try offering you a discount and maybe that’ll sort of get you over the buying hurdle. And that works pretty well for us. And then we decided to try, like, well, what if we just added basically, like, exit-intent pop-ups for every single page of our website that offers you 10%? So, you come to our store, you try to leave, we’re just going to give you 10%, we’re not going to wait for 14 days, we’re not going to try to get fancy, we’re just, anybody who looks like they might have purchased and then tries to leave, let’s give them the 10%.
And one thing that happened was, our discount rate as a company, so the overall percentage of discounts in our store went from like 4%. So, on an average month, or whatever, of our total revenue, 4% would have been discounted from discount codes, right? Now, we’re up at like 9%, which means that literally everybody is using a 10% off coupon, right? And so, now our customers just know, you can get 10% off any time you want if you just go over to click the X or whatever they’re doing, right? To get the 10%. So we also thought, okay, well, what if we just go to cold traffic, and again, it’s not cold because we’re not excluding people who’ve engaged with that, we’re not excluding people who’ve been to our site, we’re only excluding buyers. But what if we added that as sort of a top-of-funnel strategy? And so, here’s the campaign, it’s our 10% evergreen campaign. If we come into audiences, the only audience we’re running right now is to our super look-like, we’ll probably try to expand this now that it’s done so well and we’re happy with the results.
But what we think this is ultimately doing is something very similar to our exit-intent. So, if I come up here and I try to get out of here, then a box would probably pop up and offer me 10%. And then there’s the people who’ve been to that campaign who haven’t purchased. And now they’re gonna see, yes, some people who have never seen any of our ads are also gonna see this, but I think a lot of them are seeing these 10% ads, and they’re going, “Oh, here’s something to get me over that buying hurdle. Here’s the 10%.” And it’s really simple, hey, this sale won’t last forever. It’s 10% off, it’s just for you. So, nothing fancy or anything, but that’s been working really well for us. So, it’s something that if you do offer discounts on your products and you don’t mind taking a little bit of a loss in order to convert somebody to a customer, maybe it is something you should try sort of adding to your traffic game, offering sort of a discount top-of-funnel.
Interviewer: Okay. And that’s been successful for you guys, like, you haven’t seen…like, it hasn’t been too much of a discount where…?
Boris: Yeah, we were a little bit afraid, especially when traffic started tanking real bad. We’re like, well, are we cheapening our brand? Are we making it so that people just won’t buy unless they see this thing? And so we shut off our discount campaign because we were struggling everywhere, discount wasn’t doing that great. One thing you have to remember is when you discount your product, that percentage is coming out of your profit, right?
Boris: It’s not like you’re taking 10% of your profit away, you’re taking 10% of the purchase, which was most of your profit away, right? So, if we’re losing $790, right? 10% of our $79 on our Trio, and our total profit on that was like 20 bucks, we’ve just lost like 40% of our profit. So, you’re taking a big hit to your profit. So, you want to see a pretty good difference between your cold traffic campaigns and your discount campaign. Like, you need to see some pretty good metrics in order to do that effectively. And so, as cost went up, and discount wasn’t doing quite as good, it was more up in sort of like 50 and 1.5 sort of ROAS range, we were like, okay, well, let’s shut that down and see what it does to our total percent of discounts in our store, right? If this campaign is hurting us, then what we should see is if we shut that campaign off, we shouldn’t see our overall discount percentage go down, right? It was up at 9%, maybe it’ll go down to 7%, right? Because then fewer people are using the discount code. But we saw literally zero change. It just stayed at 9%. So, it’s just one more way to get what we’re already doing in front of our customers more quickly, right?
Boris: Because if you make it to our site, you’re already seeing it. And so people are getting it anyway, it’s just one more little push in the direction of, come to our site and buy. So, that was kind of like how we went about deciding whether or not it was working for us. We ran it for a few months, we shut it down for about two weeks, and nothing changed when it came to percentage of discounts used. So, we thought, okay, well, it’s not really hurting us. It’s only helping us, so let’s turn it back on.
Interviewer: Right. Yeah. I mean, that’s awesome that y’all were able to figure that out. Yeah, that’s interesting to think about. Yeah, I’ve come away with so much from this. I love chatting with you every time, Boris. I’m like, “Ooh, let’s try this [inaudible 00:27:02]. Let’s rebuild every single campaign.”
Boris: Yeah. Start with one, and if it helps, then move on to the next one, that’s kind of what we did.
27:15 Molly: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the “Smart Marketer” podcast. For any resources mentioned on the show today, please visit our show notes at smartmarketer.com/podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us an honest review on whichever platform you are listening. Thanks again, and we’ll see you next time.